How Veterinary Leaders Can Use AI Without Losing the Human Touch
Artificial intelligence is everywhere right now.
From AI scribes and workflow automation tools to email generators and virtual assistants, veterinary professionals are being told that AI will transform the way they work. Depending on who you ask, it's either the future of veterinary medicine or the beginning of the end of human expertise.
The truth, as with most things, lies somewhere in the middle.
In my recent conversation on Leading Veterinary Teams On Air, which aired on June 9, 2026, veterinary leader and consultant Tracey Johnson shared a refreshingly practical perspective on AI, leadership, and the future of veterinary medicine. With more than 25 years of experience leading general practice, specialty, emergency, and urgent care hospitals, Johnson has spent her career solving operational problems and developing teams. Today, she helps veterinary organizations improve efficiency while keeping people at the center of the work.
One theme surfaced repeatedly throughout the discussion:
AI should be a tool, not a replacement.
The Leadership Skill We Can't Afford to Lose
One of the biggest concerns surrounding AI isn't the technology itself. It's what happens if leaders stop thinking critically.
Johnson emphasized that critical thinking comes from experience. While AI can help accelerate learning, it shouldn't replace the process of developing judgment.
A simple example is using multiple AI platforms to challenge assumptions. If ChatGPT generates an answer, leaders can compare it against another platform's analysis and then verify information independently. This process doesn't eliminate critical thinking—it strengthens it.
For veterinary leaders, that distinction matters.
Whether you're drafting a difficult email, creating a new SOP, or evaluating operational changes, AI can provide a starting point. The final decision, however, still belongs to the human leader.
Technology can generate content.
It cannot replace wisdom, context, or experience.
Why Personalization Still Wins
One of the most memorable examples from the conversation centered on client communication.
Could AI draft an accounts receivable email?
Absolutely.
Could it create a personalized message that references a pet by name, acknowledges a client's experience, and balances empathy with accountability?
Not nearly as effectively.
Veterinary medicine is fundamentally relationship-driven. Clients don't remember perfectly written emails. They remember feeling understood.
The same principle applies to leadership.
Employees don't follow perfectly crafted policies. They follow leaders who make them feel seen, supported, and valued.
AI can save time, but meaningful relationships still require human connection.
The Real Problem Isn't Staffing. It's Often Workflow
When veterinary hospitals experience operational challenges, the immediate response is often to assume they need more people.
Johnson challenged that assumption.
Many bottlenecks stem from inefficient workflows rather than inadequate staffing levels.
In emergency and specialty settings, bottlenecks can occur when patients spend excessive time waiting for movement between stages of care. In general practice, inefficiencies often emerge when team members aren't fully utilized before the veterinarian enters the exam room.
High-performing hospitals understand that every role contributes to patient flow.
Rather than asking: “Do we need more people?"
Leaders should first ask: “Are we using the people we already have effectively?"
That subtle shift in thinking can dramatically improve efficiency without increasing labor costs.
Team-Based Care Is More Than a Buzzword
The discussion naturally evolved into a topic that continues to gain momentum across veterinary medicine: team-based care.
Many veterinary leaders talk about technician utilization. Fewer have systems in place that truly support it.
Effective team-based care requires more than delegation.
It requires:
Clear role expectations
Skill validation
Ongoing training
Trust between veterinarians and technicians
Leadership investment in professional development
Trust is often the missing piece.
Veterinarians cannot confidently delegate tasks if they don't know whether a team member has demonstrated competency. Likewise, technicians cannot practice at the top of their skill set if no one has created a pathway for growth.
The solution isn't simply asking teams to do more.
The solution is creating systems that allow people to develop, demonstrate competence, and earn trust.
Training Isn't an Event, It's a System
One of the strongest operational lessons from the conversation involved training.
Many veterinary hospitals rely on informal onboarding processes. New team members shadow experienced staff, learn on the job, and gradually pick things up over time.
The problem is consistency.
Without a structured system, training often depends on who is available, how busy the hospital is, and whether leaders have time to follow up.
Johnson advocates for creating clear training pathways that combine:
Hospital-specific protocols
Skills assessments
Observation requirements
Competency validation
Ongoing development plans
When training becomes visible and measurable, leaders gain confidence in their teams and employees gain confidence in themselves.
Everybody wins.
The Best Leaders Create More Leaders
While the conversation covered AI, operations, workflow, and technician development, the most powerful theme had nothing to do with technology.
It was leadership.
Both Johnson and host Suzanne Thomas reflected on moments when former employees returned years later to share how mentorship had impacted their careers.
Those stories serve as a reminder that leadership isn't measured by titles or authority.
It's measured by people.
The best leaders don't create followers.
They create future leaders.
They develop confidence.
They provide opportunities.
They challenge people to grow.
And ultimately, they step aside so others can succeed.
A Leadership Lesson Worth Remembering
Near the end of the conversation, Johnson shared a simple philosophy that every veterinary leader should adopt:
Leave everyone better than you found them.
It's easy to focus on metrics, efficiency, profitability, and operational performance.
Those things matter.
But leadership is ultimately about people.
Every conversation, coaching moment, difficult decision, and mentoring opportunity shapes the future of veterinary medicine one person at a time.
AI will continue to evolve.
Technology will continue to change.
The need for strong, compassionate, human-centered leadership will not.
For veterinary leaders navigating uncertainty, perhaps that's the most important lesson of all.
Use the tool.
Don't replace yourself.
Watch the Whole Episode Now:
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Tracey Johnson (00:00)
you know, critical thinking comes from experience and you can accelerate that experience by letting AI do it for you. Interestingly though, if you put a question into AI of something that you don't know anything about and you get an answer and then you go research it. I always tell people you put something in the chat, GPT, great, take that result and your prompt, stick it into Claude or your favorite alternative and have them it analyze it.
and then do that another time so that you get a broader spectrum of viewpoint. And that can teach you a little bit about how to interact with AI and also critical thinking. But when it comes down to it, to use your AR example, I think a letter for accounts receivable would be much...
better received if it was personalized. Like, hey, you know what? We really loved meeting Fluffy and seeing the outcome that was great for you and for Fluffy and hope that Fluffy's doing better now, but we still need to get paid, right? You can't get the AI to say stuff like that, especially if it's personalized. So that's where I think learning the structure and the foundations ⁓ is important. And then using the tool.
Always use the tool, not replace yourself.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (01:27)
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Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (02:16)
Welcome back to Leading Veterinary Teams on Air. I'm your host, Suzanne Thomas, and today I'm joined by Tracy Johnson. Tracy has spent over 25 years leading general specialty and emergency hospitals and has since pivoted into AI consulting and speaking through her company, Lead Forward Solutions. What I love about Tracy is that she's not just someone who just talks about solving
problems, she actually built a 25-year career finding them, fixing them, and then building the systems so that they don't come back. Well, now she's doing it with AI in her toolkit, which honestly is the conversation I think veterinary leadership needs to be having right now if we're not already. Tracy, I'm really excited for this conversation today for anyone who doesn't know who you are.
Tracey Johnson (02:51)
Yeah.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (03:07)
Can you tell us a little bit about what that intro can't tell us about Tracy?
Tracey Johnson (03:13)
Sure, sure. So I grew up on a farm in the Midwest and I've always had a passion for animals. And as I was going through school, I had a really unique opportunity to work as a kennel attendant in a small animal hospital, privately owned at the time. It's been a long time, so things weren't all corporate back then. And I loved it. And I stayed there for about 10 years. And then...
That's when I got hired onto a corporate group where I was a regional director and then I worked in specialty and ER and then most recently working on urgent cares as well. And one of the things that I noticed throughout that time were like for me, my passion is developing people into leaders and the other passion is really solving problems. And that's my jam. I love it. Like if there's a problem, I'm like, how can we fix it?
of where I am taking my journey now as I've stepped back from corporate medicine. really want to help independently owned hospitals and people who need problem-solving help that they haven't been able to do on their own.
So now I'm out there working with hospitals and yes, there's AI, but I also want to say that a lot of people think that AI is the next coming of badness, right? And my deal is that if we implement AI, we look at the human that has to be in the loop.
So somebody's always got to be checking whether you use an AI scribe or a receptionist voice over IP kind of thing, AI driven. You have to have a human in there checking the results and making sure that everybody's getting what's expected. So I look at AI as a tool to get to the end, but it's not all the means to the end. It's one of the things. So that's kind of where I'm sitting right now and I'm having a great time doing it. So.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (05:09)
Yeah, I mean,
to be fair, right, if you haven't touched AI yet, ⁓ which I think there's still probably a whole lot of people who haven't, but for those who have, I think what you're saying makes a lot of sense, right? Because, I mean, I've used AI for some things and
Tracey Johnson (05:16)
Mm-hmm.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (05:32)
You can put a prompt in, your best prompt into chat GPT or Claude or Perplexity, whatever you use, and it still doesn't sound like you because it's an algorithm, right? So you have to go back in and you have to look at it. And then looking at the AI scribes, even the best AI scribe, doesn't know the most complicated
medical term, like you have to go back in and just double check it. Can you train them? Absolutely. But that takes time. And if you say it fast, if you have an accent, it like there's so many nuances to it. So absolutely, I agree. I think it's really important to have that human touch. So is AI going to take over all of our jobs? I don't know. Right, so.
Tracey Johnson (06:03)
Thank
this.
Yeah, I think that's kind of an excuse right now. Some of these big businesses are using to justify laying off thousands of people, which again, touches me because that makes me angry. But I do know that it should make people more efficient. So if you've got the tools that can help you maybe write emails faster or come up with an idea for an SOP or something, absolutely. I don't know about you, but when I write an SOP, it could take a couple hours because I'm...
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (06:28)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tracey Johnson (06:43)
going back and forth and put it into AI. gives me the outline, perhaps even the first draft, but I'm always there fixing and making it mine. Right. And that's the point that people I think need to realize is that maybe in five years it'll be different, but right now AI is a tool.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (06:53)
thing on.
Tracey Johnson (07:04)
not a replacement and people need to remember and mantra that all day long tool, not replacement and check their work. Cause that to me is important. And you know what, at the end of the day, especially for veterinary professionals, it's not AI that's going to take the heat. If something goes wrong, it's it's the user. So if records are wrong, if radio graphs are read incorrectly by AI, it's not the AI. It's the doctor's responsibility.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (07:12)
Yeah.
Yeah, I actually had Adam Waisaki on last month. He's the founder of Vet Software Hub. And we talked a little bit about this topic, not expansive because he's not in operations in this way. But we talked a little bit about it. He said that, you know, you can use AI to write that email that you don't want to write. And I kind of pushed back a little bit on him for this reason, right? Like, yeah.
Tracey Johnson (07:38)
Yep.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (08:01)
you can use it, but you should still read it and you should still write it too. And use it as a tool. Like if you're scared to write that AR email, maybe use it the first round, but use it as the tool to train yourself on how to write those and then start writing them yourself. Because to be completely honest with you, like I think it's a good tool for people who are, you know, nervous to do those conversations, nervous to write those emails, nervous to, you know,
it's your first time, but I still think as leaders, it's important to lean into that uncomfortable thing and not let AI do the thing for you. Like I think that, especially as newer leaders, maybe we don't yet have the reps in yet, but I think that an AI can sometimes give us some of the words that we don't have, especially if you don't have.
a mentor or a leader that is around you that can help you. So it can help kind of be that bridge, but don't let it be the person in your person in your ear. Right. I'm using air quotes for anybody who's listening. I think that you still have to learn it and do it and be yourself also. Or then you're just like a robot.
Tracey Johnson (09:20)
Yeah, I agree on that. you know, critical thinking comes from experience and you can accelerate that experience by letting AI do it for you. Interestingly though, if you put a question into AI of something that you don't know anything about and you get an answer and then you go research it. I always tell people you put something in the chat, GPT, great, take that result and your prompt, stick it into Claude or your favorite alternative and have them it analyze it.
and then do that another time so that you get a broader spectrum of viewpoint. And that can teach you a little bit about how to interact with AI and also critical thinking. But when it comes down to it, to use your AR example, I think a letter for accounts receivable would be much...
better received if it was personalized. Like, hey, you know what? We really loved meeting Fluffy and seeing the outcome that was great for you and for Fluffy and hope that Fluffy's doing better now, but we still need to get paid, right? You can't get the AI to say stuff like that, especially if it's personalized. So that's where I think learning the structure and the foundations is important. And then using the tool.
Always use the tool, not replace yourself.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (10:36)
Yeah,
no, I agree. Now you did say that AI is not the whole part of your work. And now we've dug into AI like real, real soon into this conversation. So I apologize. So I do want to go back a little bit 25 years in hospital leadership, right? That's not a small bit. Hospital leadership specialty ER included. You also mentioned urgent care, you know, general practice, you've you've seen it all. It's a long time to stay close to the operations. What kept you in it?
Tracey Johnson (11:04)
That's a really good question. You know, I think there's two things. One is I enjoy the people, believe it or not. I love pets. Like there's nothing like walking into the treatment room and picking up a puppy and giving it some love. Right. But it's the people that I appreciated and watching them grow and helping them grow. So, you know, I think.
over the years, I've launched a few really good solid careers of, you know, help people get out there. And in my mind, I always think about the people that you're leading are behind you. But really, it's about bringing them up next to you, working with you, teaching them and then pushing them out in front of you and going, go fly free, make your success. And people do. It's great. And and that's where I really get my my joy. And the other thing is really having a little bit of something to do.
Every day that's different. As you know, running an animal hospital can be anything from plunging a toilet to putting in a new PIMS system to, you know, learning about a new drug. And so I think that's always been kind of fun because no day is the same. yet it goes back to the people. Right. And I've had staff who know I've been having a bad day, maybe a client was awful. And I used to sit in an office with a big giant glass.
you know, window door in it. And every once in a while somebody would just show up and there'd be a kitten being held and I'm on the phone and they'd be like, and I'd be like, come in. So get off the phone, hold the kitten. They knew I was having a bad day. The next thing you know, I'm better. The kittens, you know, happy, they're happy. We're all having a good time. And, and that's the part that I really loved about it was the interactions with the people and the animals and watching animals.
be healed by not just veterinarians, but the team around the veterinarian, which melts my heart every time.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (12:54)
Yeah, I think that what you just said, know, letting them go in front of you and and fly, I imagine like these butterflies, but also I, I agree. I think that one of the most amazing parts of leadership for me has been watching people grow. And one of the things that I think anyone who has ever worked with me
whether it be on the consulting side or in a hospital or in really any capacity has heard me repeat the Simon Sinek phrase that leadership is about taking care of your people, right? And like we are not supposed to be in charge. are to be taking care of our people,
And so I think that that resonates because our jobs are to bring our not they're not supposed to be back there. Our job is to bring them forward and let them shine. I'm not supposed to be the one who's like you think leader you think like leading the charge but like actually no right you're supposed to be back here letting them.
Tracey Johnson (13:52)
Mm-hmm.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (14:02)
move forward and grow. And some of the most impactful moments of my career have been watching those people get promoted, watching those people grow, having them come back to me and saying, know, like, I will never forget. So before I came, I'll tell you a quick story. Before I came into Vet Med, I was in retail management. I will never forget years later, now in veterinary medicine, going to the mall with my kids and seeing this girl Erica, and she was in
Tracey Johnson (14:12)
Yes.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (14:32)
one of the stores that we used to work in and I was like she's still like in my head was like she's still a sales associate there's no way and she's like my gosh Suzanne and she was a district manager and she's like telling everyone she's like Suzanne's the reason I'm here Suzanne's the reason I'm your boss and I'm like
you taught me everything. And I was like, I did. I was her boss and she was an assistant manager at the time. And she just like kept going she just continued to grow.
Tracey Johnson (14:55)
Hahaha
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (15:04)
what did I do? Right. But what I did was I lent some money and I impacted them in a small way, But I think back then I didn't realize how much impact you can have on somebody.
Tracey Johnson (15:15)
Hmm. Yeah. And you know, if you think about it, those people remember you the lessons that you've taught them throughout their career. And you know, you could move on to something different and you might think of them in passing, but it's not the same impact. then you think, wow, like my mentors, I think about them all the time. And, and, you know, ⁓ my first,
owner that I worked for told me one time, he said, no matter how thin you slice it, there's always two sides. And I think about Swiss cheese and you can see through it almost, but there's always two sides. And I still think about that today when dealing with conflict and I'm sure he didn't realize that that was an impact that he made on me. ⁓ and I feel like leaving behind a legacy of people that are doing good because of what you've done as a leader is just.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (15:47)
Yeah.
Tracey Johnson (16:04)
something that makes me feel wonderful and it should make you feel wonderful too because the person is now doing a great job because of your mentorship and leadership. So we need more of us on the planet, I think, and helping each other and working to better the profession. And I know there's a lot of competition out there and then you've got, you know, corporate med out there doing their thing. it's, I love to see us as women in particular. I always feel a kindred ship to that because
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (16:08)
Yeah.
Tracey Johnson (16:34)
we're still in a organizational structure, especially within corporate med, where men are leading, women are here. And I would love to see an all-run female company that has all the female leaders, right? So I love that. And so if we just got to keep bringing these women forward and pushing them to do more, and I think it's happening, but slowly.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (17:00)
the other side to that is that I didn't know that I had that much impact on her and now that I do, like...
I light up talking about that. It drives me to do more. It drives me to impact more. It drives me to honestly just keep leading because I don't know what I'm doing.
Will like I don't know if what I'm doing will impact or not But I'm just gonna keep doing it because you never know What you will say what you will do and how it might impact somebody you just know it will right like it will land at some point with somebody and it could change their life and why not actually
give that to somebody because I know that it's done something for her and if it's done something for her it might do something for somebody else and so why not put that into the world is kind of my mentality and so for me had I never known that I have that impact I don't know if I would have
that same outlook. And so I've actually started to tell people that are in leadership roles and even people who aren't in leadership roles, tell your mentors, tell the people that have impacted you, that they've impacted you. Tell them more, because I don't know that they know. And there's a lot of people that are sitting there that are not actually saying the thing, because they're like, well, why would I say it? What does it matter? Who's going to listen?
it matter? You could literally change somebody's life by one sentence and you wouldn't even know.
Tracey Johnson (18:35)
Yeah, yeah. And you know, I think to sort of back that up a little bit too, as leaders sometimes we're not always perfect and we make mistakes. And the humility that needs to come from that is, you know, if you make a mistake...
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (18:44)
I never did.
Tracey Johnson (18:49)
own it, right? It's really easy. Everything that you've just said is free. Telling people what you've done because of their mentorship is free. Apologizing for a mistake is free. It doesn't take anything away from who you are as a person. you know, when I look back at what I've, you know, my whole career, I think, God, I made a lot of mistakes, probably pissed off a few people that I shouldn't have. And, you know, but yet I also learned from those mistakes. And I think that leaders coming up
If they watch you and how you do things when things are going well and then when things are not going well and how you handle your failure is also something that's important for them to see.
⁓ and how you handle yourself under pressure. And I just remember COVID, ⁓ God, that was a year that everybody in the vet med world will remember until they are old and gray. And I'm kind of old and gray now, but I just remember thinking about massive stress and trying to be the best leader I could. And some days I just barely got out of bed because it was hard. And I think people need to realize that leadership isn't all about
being in charge, it's about getting up when you don't feel like getting up and doing the job and trying the best that you can. So I guess if anybody's out there trying to figure out leadership, it's okay if you make mistakes and just keep driving forward. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (20:03)
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean.
100 % right. I
was a hospital manager during COVID and same. I just remember thinking every single day I need to make sure these people are okay and I need to do the best that I can and I was honest every single day was like we are figuring this out together. I don't know either. Nobody knows and I didn't go in with the mentality of I know everything and we're gonna like you're gonna do what I say.
Tracey Johnson (20:25)
Yes.
Nobody knows.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (20:40)
because that's not honest. I went in like...
I don't know.
Tracey Johnson (20:45)
Yeah,
exactly.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (20:48)
And we're going to do what we think is the best thing
to do for us. And I want you all to feel safe, and that's what mattered. And that was our baseline, right? What does safety mean for us? And as long as that was where we were, then everything else could continue. I get feedback from that team today, and they tell me that all things considered wasn't the best time of their life.
made it the best that we could make it, right? We had things that I think, we did things that I think that other teams didn't think about, right? We did team building activities despite COVID. We made things fun despite COVID. We got as creative as we could get despite COVID. And...
was a tight-knit team. It was a really great team. And so I think that because I gave a damn, and I had a really great medical director, and we gave a damn about our team, and I think it showed. I think that's what matters, right? You care about your people, and they know when you care. I think it shows, so I agree. Yeah, mine was a pug. They brought me the pugs.
Tracey Johnson (21:52)
And they can tell when you're not having a good day either. And the kitten in the window is always, you know.
Hahaha
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (22:00)
If it couldn't breathe, they brought it to me.
Tracey Johnson (22:03)
Exactly.
Those are the best kind to hear them snorting and snuffling and yeah.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (22:06)
Exactly, exactly.
Now, like always, I always go on tangents, so that's not surprising if you listen to this podcast. But I did want to talk to you a little bit about bottlenecks. I think that that word can get used a lot, but leaders don't always know how to spot them until something's already on fire.
What does a bottleneck actually look like inside of a hospital and where do they usually find them first?
Tracey Johnson (22:36)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, so I'll start like with a specialty hospital ER specialty because those are really busy and it's usually easy to spot that right you've got a lobby full of people waiting and not enough exam rooms or doctors are hung up with cases and so understanding perhaps how to work through each step
of process. And I'm not talking just, okay, we check them in, they sit there, then they go in the exam room, then the doctor goes in like really understanding how much time a person sits in each area, how long it takes to get a pet in and out of like either getting blood or getting a treatment and coming back. How long does it take to talk to the owner about what's happening and then getting a treatment plan together and then getting them moved?
into either going home or waiting again in the lobby or sending them out for coffee and telling them to come back in two hours, that kind of thing. And a lot of times people just look at it as, if we throw enough bodies at something, we should fix it. And sometimes it's not just people, it's structures in place. Like, do we have a decent algorithm that can help us? Like, for example, now that we have veterinary scribes out there,
Record keeping is easy, but how do you make sure that if there's an emergency that comes in and you need to write up some orders for some meds that are needed right now? Well, the scribe isn't going to be able to get that into the places it needs to go. It needs to get up on the treatment board. So understanding that, yes, scribes are great, but you have to also have a plan that when there's an emergency, how do you get information out there? And so I've seen other tools out there, things like
you know, keeping track of people in the waiting room. Urgent cares have really cool technology now based off of what's in the human world of looking at patients and wait times. And I'm looking at something too that is used in human ERs. And it's based off of like you've seen everywhere, severity and then time. So you've got something that got hit by a car that comes in and somebody that's got a torn nail.
Right? So there's severity there, then number of exam rooms and number of doctors and typically experience of doctors. So you've got interns, they take a little longer than doctors. So if you look at all that stuff, you can start to predict, if we have five emergencies, like five heat strokes of pugs that have come in because the owners aren't taking care of them. And then you've got like, you know, maybe something has been throwing up for a week. OK, well, that's important, but not as important as a heat stroke. And so looking at those pieces.
and doing workflow, I call it workflow optimization where you literally sit down and you write every step and you talk to everybody in the hospital, not just the doctor and the receptionist and the tech, but the people that like run the kennels back and forth to the owners to hang on to or the people that room, you know, the staff. I mean, the patients, all important. And then if you take that into general practice.
I've actually been in a general practice that's run really well. And one of the things that they do is their staff has been there a long time, which should tell you something that the culture is great and they feel good about the jobs they do. But the other thing that they do that I think is cool is you bring your pet in and if it's a wellness or whatever, they'll come in and say, well, I know the doctor is going to want to do a blood screening and your analysis.
And is it okay if I go ahead and take, you know, your pet in the back, get the blood in the urine and, we'll hold it until you decide. But that way when she comes in that we can get this done. And I'm like, yeah, that's like the most efficient thing I've ever heard in my life. So they run 20 minute appointments. They get it done because the staff is already working before the doctor even gets in the room. That's efficiency and bottleneck reduction. Cause
And they only have two exam rooms and sometimes there's two doctors and how do you flip those, right? Tex and the team are working on the pet before the doctor even steps in the room. They've got everything ready. The doctor comes in, they can do what they need to do. And these technicians have been utilized to their capacity, taking blood, determining, okay, what vaccines are needed based on whatever the protocol is. And then telling the doctor, are the vaccines that I think are necessary. Do you want me to draw them up?
Whoa, imagine being a doctor in that environment where you've got your team working for you. You know, imagine that. Awesome. So those are the kinds of things that you look at for bottlenecks is are you utilizing your team? What are the steps of the workflow? Are people empowered to do the job that they've been trained to do, especially like credentialed technicians? They shouldn't be holding pets. Get somebody off the street to learn how to restrain a dog and let the tech do the work. Right.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (27:09)
Wow, amazing.
Tracey Johnson (27:33)
So, dropped. So, I kind of feel like we, yeah, yeah, I just think we need to do more of that and we don't. And I don't know what it's going to take for people to wake up and say, you know, highly trained staff should be treated like highly trained staff and not making them do things that somebody who's not credentialed can do. Yeah. So.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (27:35)
For anyone who's just listening, I just made a face.
There's a lot of
conversations around that, but I think that there's a lot of nuance too. I think that there's trust and lack of ownership to the technicians and something that I'm starting to change my, the language that I use around that is instead of using the word utilization is kind of.
Tracey Johnson (27:59)
Yes, there is.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (28:20)
talking more about team-based care in general, instead of just saying utilization, because what does that even mean? And it's starting to get kind of buzzword-ish, is really talking about how do we, what is like...
Tracey Johnson (28:24)
Mm.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (28:33)
team-based care mean when we're usually like using the whole team? But also, what does ownership look like? Because I think that when we're just empowering people, like also, what does that mean? And when we're talking about doctors trusting people, what does it take to trust your team? I think that one of the things that you just mentioned was talking to the doctors in their comfort level.
you know, is it an intern? Is it a new doctor? Where are they? But what about the skill level of the team? What about yes, you might have a credential technician, but a credential technician doesn't necessarily mean that they have the skills to do
xyz just because and yes guys you heard this first this is Suzanne Thomas the credential technician the person who wrote a book on utilizing your team I hear you however just because you have the credential doesn't mean you have the skill right just because you have the knowledge doesn't mean that you can actually physically do the thing
If you haven't actually done the thing, if you haven't actually, if you don't have the reps in, doesn't, it doesn't mean you're not good. It just means you haven't done it. How does the doctor know that? Right? And it's the same thing on the job trained. As an operator, how do I know that Susie can place a catheter, whether you're credentialed or not? How do I know if I haven't actually watched you do it?
I don't. The only real assessments we have for people are knowledge assessments. And you can tell me that you can place the catheter. Cool. I don't know that you can until I can see you do it. So it's really hard for doctors who have never worked with you before to immediately trust you. So what's easier when there's a lot of stuff going on?
for the doctor, especially in general practice settings or in a lot of these hospitals that have been doing this forever to just say, it's just faster if I do it. Which it's not, we know that. However, if that's how things have always been.
If we don't, as leaders, step in and pause and say, actually, we need to do this right now, it's never going to happen. So we need some way of assessing people's skill level, whether that's some sort of checklist or that's some sort of thing where we can have. And I've seen these really awesome whiteboards. I've seen these really awesome like,
Tracey Johnson (30:43)
Mm-hmm.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (30:58)
digital boards that people have put up where they're like putting names on and where people are and training things. But that takes somebody who's actually like invested in the skills of their team to do that and wants people to grow and wants people to do better skills and have their team-based care, right?
Tracey Johnson (31:21)
Yeah.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (31:22)
That's investment in your team. Now you want empowering your team. That's how you do it, right? I want to work someplace like that. I want to work someplace where they're like, Suzanne needs to check off that she can place an NG tube. Then everybody in the hospital knows that. Cool. We're going to train her how to do that.
Because it's right on the board. And then the doctors can all see that right on the board. We can all see that I don't know how to do that yet. So we're going to train her how to do that with the person who knows how to do that. Right? You know what I mean? But if it's not visible, if it's not right there, nobody can see that.
Suzanne Thomas (31:55)
I want to pause really quick from today's episode because I have something that I need to share with you that I'm really excited about. My new workbook has officially launched. It's called So Now What? And I created it for people just like you who are either brand new or
who have been in your role for years, but are still feeling like nobody ever handed you the playbook because so many people in veterinary medicine are promoted into leadership and then expected to just figure things out as you go. This workbook is designed to give you more structure, clarity, reflection, and practical guidance for navigating your role with more confidence and intention for the first 30 days.
All the details are linked in the show notes. So when you're done with this episode, go check it out. All right, now let's get back to the episode, shall we?
Tracey Johnson (32:52)
Yeah, I it's funny that you bring that up because that has been I think historically one of the big gaps in training in animal hospitals is that you can have all these online programs which are great, right? And especially some of the like ad-dov nonprofit, right? Go to YouTube, see some of the videos, vet girl, some of the other stuff that's out there that you pay subscription based. It's great. There's all these videos, but do they align with your hospitals, SOPs and protocols and
we need to have observation. So I've actually built something that is out there that will help with this. And it's called the Veterinary Team Training Portal. And what it does is it takes the training materials from the hospital, puts them into buckets, and then tasks. So for example, general husbandry, right? That should be everybody who is in the back touching an animal has to have how to clean a cage.
What is the protocol for that hospital and how to restrain a cat? Some are fear free, some aren't. So build your protocol in that. Same with dogs, same with, you know, if you're exotics, how do you hold a bird? And all of those things that are hospital specific. So they get assigned to the new employee, along with orientation and other, you know, workflow, how to use your PIMS, everything. And then within that, there's a card that you click on.
how to restrain a cat, right? So now you've got some steps in there, observe, and then perform it a number of times, and then you're proficient, and finally somebody signs off as completed. And so on those steps, you can be trained by a peer, but somebody of a leadership capacity, supervisor, manager, needs to sign off if they're proficient, and then they're completed. And once they get through this training program, then you know that they've been trained based on
hospital protocol, but you can also attach it to, you know what, go watch this video ⁓ out on the internet that says how to do all the things that we just talked about. Watch it and then come back and tell me about it. Then show me, show me at least three times. And if you do that, then people are trained on hospital specific protocols and you know that they've been observed and that they're proficient. And then on top of that,
The thing that it drives me nuts is you get started with somebody and about four weeks into the training, everything falls apart. You know, and then they never come back to their training. Well, this system will email you reminders of overdue tasks that are set by dates. And then the managers also get ⁓ emails. And so it keeps people pushing forward on their training. And in some of these hospitals, like specialty in particular,
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (35:17)
Yeah.
Tracey Johnson (35:35)
If you've got somebody learning surgery and then they go into neurology and then they, you know, they're learning how to do radiographs and all that, there's a lot there. And it could take six months to a year to train somebody in every department. So it's important that you have that in a place that everyone can be looking at it. So online I think is the best place because I'm an online person. Having a notebook that can get stained with, you know, the things that come out of animals.
Or coffee spilled on it or whatever it's and they get lost and then people like don't remember where I left off you're like, geez here we go So now you've got something. So anyway, that's how it works. And I think it's a good It's kind of a good add-on to any training program that you have so you've got videos that girl whatever put it in there and The other part that brings the AI in is if people don't have really good training checklist
then use, let's use your SOPs and then let's build a training program. So you throw that in AI, you let the AI go, okay, here's all the SOPs, here's what you need to be trained on. And then the human needs to review that a couple of times and try it out. And then they sign off on the list. So I think it's awesome. I don't know. It'll be interesting to see a year from now what this looks like in the industry, but I feel like there's a need for it.
Especially in larger hospitals, know, the one to doctor hospitals may may like it but Really? It's for staff that are like 25 and over right and then you've got and then summertime too. You've got all these ⁓ You know summer help or vacation help during the holidays and whatever that's useful too because then you can bring up what they've learned and then refresh it so Yeah
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (36:56)
Yeah.
Yeah.
To be honest with you, I think that just hearing the bones of it, think even the smaller hospitals in the most recent role that I was in, I was overseeing smaller hospitals, general practice hospitals, and small to medium hospitals.
There's still not a whole ton of structure in some of the even.
Let me back up. Even in the corporate world, I think that there's this assumption that because you are corporate, you have all of this available to you. I think that that's true to an extent, but at the same time, I think that a lot of the way that some of the corporates work, and I've worked for a couple of them, I think that the way that some of them work
is that they really want to keep the integrity of the way that the hospital felt at the ground so they don't really poke a ton at
how the hospital is running. Yes, operationally, but they still keep the hospital's original training. They still keep the hospital's original stuff. And what I mean by stuff, right, is that like when you walk in the hospital, whatever their like process for how they were training their team is still the same thing. And so, yeah, they might give you some resources, but they're not telling you you have to do it this way most of the time.
Tracey Johnson (38:49)
Mm-hmm.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (38:50)
as they get bigger, as the organizations get larger, some of that changes. But by and large, in my experience, this might be different, but by and large, you go to these hospitals and they're still like flopping around like fish because they don't know what to do. They're pulling things.
from all over the internet, right? Or they like are pulling stuff from whatever the like corporate library is. And maybe it's good, maybe it's not, maybe it's like, I need to know how to read a Entitle CO2, let me look it up. And the only thing that's available is like the manual for the Entitle CO2, like that's not helpful, right? So.
Tracey Johnson (39:34)
Yeah. No.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (39:37)
I, what you're describing would be wildly helpful for some of these hospitals, even though they're smaller and they're not these big giant specialty clinics. So don't discount yourself. I think it's great.
Tracey Johnson (39:41)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Well, thank you. You know, to put
together, I've done some work on looking at free resources like...
through some of the big pharmaceutical slash laboratory diagnostic companies that provide some free training so that if hospitals are budget constraint, they can still get some good training. And you don't always know what's out there until you spend time in my free time. That's what I do. And so I think it's important that we provide good training resources. And to your point, think going back to the leadership development.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (40:12)
Are you done?
Tracey Johnson (40:20)
If you're developing your people and you want them to succeed, having tools around you to help that is just, it's essential. And they have to be able to trust you to be able to give them what they need and then fulfill the requirements of the position and then be successful. That's kind of our job as leaders is making people successful. And to your point about credentialed.
or people have been trained or experienced. I agree with that. I used to be on the advisory board for several small community colleges that had veterinary technician programs. And a lot of these programs are great. They teach a lot. But if you have one class,
on anesthesia and spays and neuters and the whole thing wrapped into one, you might get to watch one or do one. It doesn't mean you're proficient. It just means that you've been exposed. And now when you're in the hospital, getting that hands-on training is important. And so I think having that combined in there is important too. And we have to set our credentialed, trained.
in school people up to be successful in practice and I think that's one of I mean they don't send nurses out once they've gone through school here you go go go work in the ICU ward now they're like you have to do this thing yeah exactly we should do that
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (41:37)
Right.
I mean
how many mentorship programs, how many like new doctor programs are there, right? How many companies are we seeing popping up with these new doctor programs, right? Why don't we see these for the nurses, the veterinary technicians, sorry.
Tracey Johnson (42:00)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (42:02)
Right? I'm not sorry.
Tracey Johnson (42:02)
Yes. Agree.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (42:04)
I don't know why I said sorry. I'm not sorry. Veterinary nurses, veterinary technicians, I use it interchangeably. anyway, the honestly, why don't we see that? Because, well, I'm not going to say because. Why don't, I'm just going to ask the question. Why don't we see that?
Tracey Johnson (42:19)
Well, I feel like part of it is we aren't invested enough in the teams out there. Yeah. And, and I also feel like they, people aren't quite there yet in terms of understanding that in order to have a really successful hospital, you need to have doctors and credentialed technicians, like a human hospital. wouldn't just put a bunch of CNAs out there. You have to have RNs working and there's a hierarchy. What are us?
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (42:23)
All right, you said it, not me.
Right.
Tracey Johnson (42:47)
you know, the CPAs or the CNAs or whatever they are at the bottom and then LPNs and then RNs, like you have to work through to get there. And even if you go to school to be an RN, you still have a long way to go with your training. And we don't provide that ability to do that. ⁓ And we should, even like internship programs where we training doctors to handle specialty ⁓ and emergency patients coming through, we don't do that for technicians and we should.
I think it's a disservice to them and it's a disservice to the career and the profession and we should do more of that. And I'm not even credentialed, but I would not presume to say that, you know, having more training or less training is better or worse, but I feel like support and leadership is the most important thing and we don't do enough of that, I don't think.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (43:38)
Well, you know, as a credential technician, I lean into leadership because I think that the only real way to move anything for our credentialed team members is by speaking to the leaders. I don't think that we're going to get very far unless there's buy-in from the leaders and the doctors. so because I have experience in leadership, I was like, well,
I could sit here on the floor all day and try to go up the ladder in leadership on the technician side of things, but there's a very clear ceiling there. Or I could go up the ladder in the management side of things where there's less of a clear ceiling there. And so I went the route that made the most sense because I figured I'll probably get more leeway over here.
And I can keep my credentials and keep talking. So it's weird. But I can keep advocating for my friends on the floor and continue to work alongside them because I am always a technician first. And at the end of the day, I think that, you know, I ask the big questions like, why is there such a high ceiling for or low ceiling actually for our technicians?
Tracey Johnson (44:39)
Yeah.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (45:03)
Why is there only two chief veterinary nursing officers in all of veterinary medicine? Right? Like, why?
Are there no licensed credentialed veterinary technicians in those chief positions other than three that I know of? And one is a chief operating officer. The other two are chief veterinary nursing officers. There's no one else that I'm aware of. There might be. I just am not aware of any other credentialed technicians in those positions. And only one, by the way, since we were talking about women, is a woman. So why?
Tracey Johnson (45:30)
Thank
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (45:42)
Like, it doesn't make, and again, it is very possible that I am unaware of other people, but why? And so...
And two out of the three are VTSs. So what about like little old Suzanne over here who's got two bachelor's degrees and a master's degree? Do I have to VTS in order to hit like it? There's just a lot of questions that circle around like what is the leadership track for the technician? Where do they go? Do they have to go into management in order to do anything past the hospital? Where can they go?
Tracey Johnson (46:19)
Yeah.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (46:21)
There's just a lot of questions for people in, like, sure, there's leadership roles for technicians in hospitals, and there are a few companies that have director of nursing roles, which is great, but then what?
Tracey Johnson (46:22)
ooo
Mm-hmm.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (46:42)
like is that where it stops? Like there's just a lot of questions that that I have of like so what else is there? And again I've gone down another rabbit hole but like
Tracey Johnson (46:53)
Yeah, no, I agree though.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (46:54)
Our leaders,
right in the nursing side of things, I just have a lot of questions as to where are we going with this and what do what do veterinary nurses have? And then you throw in new roles and ⁓ things that complicate stuff and just a lot of
A lot of questions and lot of unknowns right now in our profession, think, have people feeling a little bit weird about where we sit.
Tracey Johnson (47:21)
Thank
And I, I kind of, agree with all of that. And I think about you, really made me think a little bit more about, well, where do experienced veterinary technician leaders go? I mean, it's no, no secret that after time your body wears out and getting on the floor is hard and getting up or that big dog that has wrecked your back. Right. So where do you go from there? And
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (47:50)
Yeah.
Tracey Johnson (47:53)
Most of them become managers in hospitals and now it's a administrative role that encompasses everything from the front desk to the back and then payroll and everything else in between. I think it's paramount that in some of these larger companies that they have leaders, just like they have chief medical officers. Why don't they have chief technician officers or whatever you want to call them that now are looking at
mentorship pathways and ways to support VTSs and growth within that role because there's not enough of that growth. if you look out there, like VTSs, for example, emergency med are very more common than say a VTS in like nutrition or dermatology or any of the specialties that are already kind of stressed because there's not enough doctors. And so how do you make that
a supportive environment and you know we do have know the AVMA and all these other doctor related organizations that promote things for the doctors but do we really have a huge governing body that helps push forward a technician you know a technician centered positive focus career path
and working in the interest of the technicians and their careers in general, because we know a lot of people leave the industry because of low pay or they've topped out or their bodies are failing, those three.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (49:24)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tracey Johnson (49:26)
So yeah, we need a lot. We need a lot of help and we need a lot of people to step up, I think, and make a difference. And right now it's hard because people are still kind of a little burnt out and crunchy. And then the whole burnout and work-life balance thing is a thing now too. So it's hard. It's hard.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (49:42)
Yeah.
But I
think that people like you and me, think continuing to have these conversations is what moves us forward. And asking the hard questions, I think, is important. And while we might not have the answers, I think it's important to, like I said, have people that are willing to ask the questions, willing to raise our hands and say, well, why not? Why don't we have these things and see who's willing to
answer them, right? ⁓ I don't have the, I'm not the CEO of the big corporation that can answer that question. But hey, CEO of the big corporation, why don't you have that role? Why isn't it important to you? You say that, you know, these roles are important. Well, then put your money where your mouth is, right? Like then do something about it. I think that to me is the answer, right? Like,
Tracey Johnson (50:12)
Thanks.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (50:37)
do something and hey, small independent practices.
you say this role is important to you, then do something about it. Maybe you can't have a chief veterinary nursing officer in your hospital, but like you can elevate that role. You can have a you have a medical director. You can have a nursing director or technician director, whatever you want to call it. Right. Like you can have an equal partner. You have a hospital manager, a medical director. You can have a third partner. There should be, in my opinion, there should be three lanes, in my opinion, in veterinary medicine.
just like there is in human medicine. Why isn't there?
Tracey Johnson (51:14)
I agree a hundred percent. I
think if you, you know, if there are any people out there in the consolidator world that are listening to this podcast, I think if you do an ROI and a business analysis of highly trained technicians working alongside doctors and seeing how productive they can be, you're going to find that training and working with the career paths of
veterinary technicians is going to actually make you more money, which I know we hate to talk about that and it's a dirty word, but profit at the end of the day is the thing. And you should be looking at that ROI and making really good decisions based on that. you know, just looking at how you can actually make just a tiny bit of improvement in your hospital. If you can get an extra appointment in per day per doctor,
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (51:46)
And it's been done. Great.
Tracey Johnson (52:08)
an average order is what three or four hundred bucks you do that over you know twenty six weeks or twenty two weeks or however your vacations are you'll see there's it's not just change it's thousands of dollars that can be put back into the profit and training programs that can ultimately make better medicine which at the end of the day we want and everything explodes
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (52:32)
Better patient outcomes, which is what's important to us, right? And better patient outcomes equals happier clients. Happier clients equals their coming back. Them coming back equals more money in your pocket. Like it's cyclical, right? It all helps each other. Right.
Tracey Johnson (52:35)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and we don't keep increasing
prices to get there. We can actually do more.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (52:54)
Right, there
are other answers than pricing, I think that we know that, and pricing is not always the answer. I have said that for years, but...
I do think that the interesting part of this is what you mentioned is like, do the ROI. It's been done. JAVMA did it. I think it was 2024 or 2023. There are studies. Ken Yagi talks about it. He does talks at like every conference. He talks about it all the time. I've heard numbers anywhere between 53,000 all the way up to like 90 something thousand. Depends on the type of practice.
it is. And those are pretty old numbers now, right? So like include inflation and all of that stuff. It's probably in the hundreds of thousands, the hundred, the six figures, I wouldn't say hundreds of thousands, but like $100,000 per technician that you skilled technician, again, you have to, you have to invest in the skills training, right? And to your point, Tracy, like, you have this app, there's
Tracey Johnson (53:41)
you
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (54:01)
invest in the skills training. If you don't want to invest in an app, like I mentioned, get a board, write it down. Like we can go real old school here. It doesn't have to be crazy or like do something fun, make it fun, right? And put together some stuff, like invest in your team, show them that you care, give them some training, show them like Suzanne doesn't know how to put an NG
Tracey Johnson (54:19)
Yes.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (54:29)
tube in, by the way I don't that's why I keep bringing it up, like, so somebody come teach me, but you know, like I was an oncology technician for six years, like we don't do NG tubes and oncology, but invest in your team, train them, they'll want to do more.
Right? And then your doctors will again full circle, full circle, your doctors are going to trust your team. And then they'll stop having to do it all the time. And then you'll get more efficient and then you'll have that team like you mentioned earlier, who is doing the things in the room before anything even happens. And then you guys are flowing and then you guys are like, my gosh, this is great. And then you're like, my gosh, this is like that unicorn clinic everybody talks about. Yeah.
Guess what? You know how that happens? my gosh. Again, it's full circle.
Tracey Johnson (55:17)
Yeah.
Imagine that.
You know what? Don't discount your oncology experience, by the way. I bet you you can put a catheter in anything on the floor.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (55:30)
I think that a
catheter in like the seizing cat from across the room, it happened. The kitten that was like this big, they were like, oh my God, nobody can get the catheter. I'm like, watch out, I got this. Of course it is. I don't think so. I don't remember. It was a long time ago. Maybe it was ER in the of the night. I don't remember. It a long time ago. I'm sorry. I don't remember. Let's say yes.
Tracey Johnson (55:34)
Yeah.
Yes.
And he did it, right? And did the kitten lift?
Okay, I like that answer. Yeah.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (55:57)
Let's make it positive.
Let's make this a positive story. I don't remember.
Tracey Johnson (56:01)
The fact that you can put a catheter in a kitten that's tiny and no veins and having issues? That's good.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (56:06)
dehydrated and yeah I remember
I'm sorry everyone I remember placing the catheter in the seizing kitten I do not remember anything after that
Tracey Johnson (56:16)
Probably because you're like, holy cow. I actually did it. And you're like, yes.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (56:20)
Yes, I was so proud of myself for putting it was
like, it was shaking. I was like, but you know, focused. no, I to this day, I joke and say I'm the clinic vampire, because even unpracticed, I can walk in and hit something. And I'm like, I should really stop saying that because I'm to walk in and I'm going to talk a big game. And then I'm gonna be like, where's the vein? But
Tracey Johnson (56:25)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (56:45)
I don't know, just, I'm an anomaly, I guess. I was hired in oncology right off my first externship. So it was one of those things that like, I knew nothing, but I was just very, very good tactile with my hands and just, I just got it. And it's one of those things that like,
Tracey Johnson (57:01)
Yes.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (57:05)
I don't want to say it's one of those things that you either have or you don't have because it is most definitely a learned skill, but I one of those things that I just got really quickly and then I learned everything else afterwards. And so they hired me for that skill. I'm pretty sure. And then taught me everything else as we were going. And it took me a long time to catch on everything else. I love you, Dr. Sue. Pretty sure that she was frustrated with me for like a good seven months before I finally like
I was like, wait, what's an AIDR CBC? And then finally understood what we were actually doing. But now she will tell you that if I would volunteer to come back and work for her, she would love me forever. But here we are.
Tracey Johnson (57:47)
but you're doing good on a more global scale, right?
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (57:50)
I mean, I think, you know, oncology has my heart and I in, you know, in another life, if I wouldn't have had kids, they probably would have ETS in oncology. That was that was where I was going. I was like, I that was, you know, what I was going to do. But life had different plans. Life decided that Suzanne was going to be a leader again. So here we are.
Tracey Johnson (58:15)
Well, great. Developing
little humans, you're developing managers. mean.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (58:19)
I know, you know,
and having these wonderful conversations with amazing humans like you Tracy, I don't know, it's just like, it's where we are in this world. And occasionally I do get to play with oncology again when Dr. Sue calls on me, but you know, every once in a while and then every once in a while when I'm in a hospital and people are like, I can't get this thing, I'm like, I got you. Because you know, yeah.
Tracey Johnson (58:34)
you
Mmm. You're like, step aside, let me
in there.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (58:46)
I do, and I walk in, I'm like, just so you know, I was an oncology technician, they're like, ⁓ I'm like, yeah, I know. As soon as I say it, they're like, she can get blood. like, that's what I do best. So now I get to go and do the things that I enjoy doing, and I don't have to do all the other stuff, right? Like, and it's not saying that all the other stuff is not enjoyable, but like, as a technician, I think there's some stuff that...
And I mean, even as a manager, right? Like there's some stuff that like you have to do that you don't love and now I get to choose the stuff that I want to do when I go into the hospital.
Tracey Johnson (59:24)
Yeah, if I never have to look at a staff schedule to fill a Saturday night overnight again, I would love that and angry clients that are just a little bit off to the center of reality. Those are the two things I don't. Yeah. Yeah. Just use a, Hey, talk to my little friend over here and then let me know when you're
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (59:31)
Bye!
Just use AI, no I'm just kidding.
Right,
mean one day, right? Oh my god. Well, I think that we have gone on a lot of tangents. And we could probably talk forever. But I do have a couple of things that I ask everyone. Are you a reader? Okay.
Tracey Johnson (59:57)
Yeah.
Tons every
day. I have a reading my Kindle. That's four years old now. So there you go
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (1:00:14)
Okay,
so, RabbitFire asks, everyone who says yes to this question, if there was one book, it does not have to be a leadership book, it can be anything, sky's the limit. One book, every single person on this planet has to read, what is it?
Tracey Johnson (1:00:20)
Okay.
gosh. Well, I think that there is philosophy, right? I have been dipping myself into the stoic realm of just learning how to let things go and be present. And anything by Seneca. I know people always talk about the art of war, but I feel like business and war, shouldn't go to war. should
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (1:00:29)
you
Tracey Johnson (1:00:51)
philosophize about that. So yes, that and I also feel like anything by Brene Brown. my gosh, I just love her. The vulnerability and the ability to be yourself in business and in life is important and humility. So those two things. Yeah.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (1:01:07)
Have you read her new book Strong Ground yet?
Tracey Johnson (1:01:10)
No, I have not. You know why? Because I've been busy learning AI and computer science, but I'm getting back into ⁓ that world right now. I'm actually rereading Atomic Habits right now by James Clear, mostly because I'm like, why can I seem to not?
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (1:01:12)
Yes.
Tracey Johnson (1:01:27)
pick up on some things I need to keep doing in my life. So revisiting that right now and that's been a game changer for me. But I see that Brene Brown is going back on tour. So I might actually have to go see her. I saw Simon Sinek a few years ago in Boston. It was amazing live. Yeah.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (1:01:39)
I
did, saw that she, so I have not read her newest book yet either. However, I did also see that and I'm pretty sure she's coming to the Northeast.
Yes, awesome. She is also on my list of like must see in person. I have a feeling that if I went to see her in person, there would be a lot of tears. I don't know why. I just feel like there would be because I'm that person.
Tracey Johnson (1:02:09)
I
think she touches you on a different level that hits your little vulnerability spots but makes it safe. She's a safe person. That's what I like about her.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (1:02:16)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I think that Brene Brown is like brilliant and she goes so deep. And when you talk, when you listen to her talk, like I heard her on the diary of a CEO and just listening to her talk, I'm like, like it's beyond just reading her.
books, right? She's just like some of the stuff that she talks about. I'm like, I need you in my brain. I need you as my mentor. I need you like all the time, you know, it's just I need somebody like that constantly speaking life into me.
Tracey Johnson (1:02:38)
Thank you.
Well, and she works at a university in Texas and I keep thinking, wouldn't it be cool to go take a class with her? I'd be like, one of the people that'd be like, I'll erase the board. I promise I'll clap your eraser for you. Please let me do whatever. I want to just be around you. Yeah, that person.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (1:03:04)
Hahaha
Yeah, right.
And not in a fangirl-y, like, weird way. Like, in a, are, you know, they say that you're the kind of, you are the people around you, you are, the five people around you or whatnot. Like, I need you in my circle. Like, I need people that are in that brain space. And like that, you know? I need a, I need that.
whatever she's been drinking, need that drink, you know, I need that anyway. So I think like being in a room full of Brene Brown like people would be would be good, you know.
Tracey Johnson (1:03:38)
I agree.
And it would be good for the world, actually. We need more of them and less outrageous voices now that are attacking the world. ⁓
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (1:03:43)
Hmm. Yeah, I agree. I agree.
Is there anything that we did not talk about today that is we went on a lot of tangents that is on your heart that you would like to share?
Tracey Johnson (1:04:00)
Yes, there's one thing that I try to tell every new leader out there and that is leave everyone better than you found them.
Everyone that you leave in your leadership role, they should be better than what you found and it is your responsibility to bring up the people alongside of you instead of behind you. Those are the two things I think that people need to leave people better than when it's kind of like a Girl Scout thing, but humanized. But I believe that truly.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (1:04:30)
I love that. For people who want to connect with you, where can they find you?
Tracey Johnson (1:04:34)
the easiest lead forward solutions.com or you can find me on LinkedIn and or you can send me an email at T Johnson at lead forward solutions.com.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (1:04:45)
awesome.
Well, Tracy, this was wonderful. Thank you so much for your practical, grounded, and pretty useful insights today. I am so thankful for you for hanging out with us for a little over an hour. For everyone listening, as you just heard, you can find Tracy at leadforwardsolutions.com and make sure we didn't actually talk about your free ebook, but ⁓ I believe it's is it
Tracey Johnson (1:04:54)
Yeah.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (1:05:12)
available at the website. Awesome.
Tracey Johnson (1:05:12)
It's how
to use AI and look at your workflow in your practices in different ways. Just think about how to make things better in your hospital.
Suzanne Thomas LVTg, CVTg (1:05:24)
Awesome. So go ahead
and grab that from Tracy at her website. I will have everything linked in the show notes and also on ⁓ www.lvt.vet/ podcast where you can find the notes, the transcript and more. If this episode landed for you, share it with someone in your hospital who needs to hear it. That's how we build this community. I will see you next time. Lead where you are.
when it's uncomfortable, especially when it's uncomfortable. I'm Suzanne Thomas and this is Leading Veterinary Teams On Air. Thank you guys.
Connect With Tracey Johnson
Tracey Johnson is a veterinary operations leader, consultant, speaker, and founder of Lead Forward Solutions. With more than 25 years of experience leading general practice, specialty, emergency, and urgent care hospitals, she now helps veterinary organizations improve operations, develop leaders, optimize workflows, and thoughtfully implement AI-driven solutions.
Learn More
🌐 Website: LeadForwardSolutions.com
🔗 LinkedIn: Tracey Johnson
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Tracey also offers resources and guidance for veterinary leaders looking to improve workflows, strengthen team development, and explore practical applications of artificial intelligence within veterinary medicine.
To learn more, visit LeadForwardSolutions.com.
About Leading Veterinary Teams On Air
Leading Veterinary Teams On Air is hosted by Suzanne Thomas, MBA, LVTg, CVTg, CCFP, CVBL, leadership consultant, speaker, and advocate for veterinary teams. Each episode explores leadership, culture, operations, team development, and the real-world challenges facing veterinary professionals today.
Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts and visit www.LVT.vet for additional resources, transcripts, and leadership tools.